Did you get a round resounding for you way up here?

2014 Biography Series, Part 5 of 16

by Mark Scott
JoniMitchell.com
July 10, 2014


Half Moon Bay
Sometime in 1971 Joni purchased a plot of land on the rugged coast of British Columbia near Half Moon Bay. With the help of a friend she erected a stone house on this property that eventually became her equivalent of a monastic retreat. The dwelling was built as a stark contrast to the comfort and camaraderie of Joni's home in Laurel Canyon. During the latter half of 1971, she moved up to this retreat and lived in relative seclusion. In contrast to the physical pain and confinement caused by her childhood bout with polio, emotional and psychological wounds forced Joni into another period of soul-searching introspection. She read a number of books on psychology but found them to be unsatisfactory, preferring to immerse herself in the work of the 19th century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche instead. Along with a growth spurt of self-knowledge and strengthening of her emotional core, one of the products of this period of contemplation and healing was a collection of new songs. As these songs took shape, the idea that they needed to be heard was also forming in Joni's mind.

Joni returned to California and in February of 1972 her retirement from live performance came to an official end. She embarked on a tour of North America that began in Seattle, Washington. Her setlists were made up mostly of songs from 'Blue' and selections from the new material she had created at her Half Moon Bay sanctuary. Jackson Browne, another singer songwriter on a fast track to stardom, was her opening act for this tour. Once again, musical chemistry seemed to spark physical chemistry and Jackson and Joni eventually became an item. On February 23rd, Joni gave another performance at New York's Carnegie Hall, accompanying herself on guitar, piano, and dulcimer. The concert was recorded but the recording has never been officially released.

Joni was subletting the house on Lookout Mountain Avenue when she returned to Los Angeles after her 1972 tour. David Geffen offered her a place to live so she moved in to his house in Beverly Hills. Geffen had created his own record label by this time and asked Joni to sign on. Her contract with Reprise was due to expire and Joni agreed. She began recording for her fifth album which was released on Geffen's fledgling Asylum label.

One of the songs from the album 'For the Roses', Joni Mitchell's first release on the Asylum label, is called 'Lesson in Survival'. In another song from this album, 'See You Sometime', she sings

Why do have to be so jive
Ok, hang up the phone
It hurts
But something survives



Joni in British Columbia ib 1971
Survival seems to be a key thematic element in 'For the Roses'. The title of the record and the song it is named for also suggest something more than survival. To 'run for the roses' requires strength, stamina and agility to earn the prize, whether it be an award, critical acclaim or a bouquet handed up to the stage from an admiring fan at the end of a concert. You can hear a kind of power in the first rumbling piano chords of the album's opener 'Banquet'. To quote the lyrics of another song on this record, Joni seems to 'spring from the boulders like a mama lion'. 'Banquet's lyrics give a metaphorical picture of human life and society as an abundantly laid banquet with an infinite variety of plentiful choices. All are invited to 'tuck your napkins in and take your share'. Each choice made from this bounty leads down a different path. According to Joni's ultimate conclusion

Some get the gravy
Some get the gristle
Some get the marrow bone
Some get nothing
Though there's plenty to spare


Later in the song there is a follow-up to the critical implication of injustice that comes at the end of those lines:

Back in the banquet line
Angry young people crying
Who let the greedy in
And who left the needy out


Although the singer does put herself into the lyric, 'I took my dream down by the sea', this song is largely observational with a philosophical bent. This was a significant shift away from the vivid first person expression of experience and emotion that characterizes most of the lyrical content of 'Blue'. The song is followed by ominous sounding, low pitched guitar notes leading into a percussive strum that drives the lyrics and melody of 'Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire'. This song puts the listener inside the mind of a heroin addict. The lyrics are a series of fragmentary but sequential images. They form a powerful narrative of the desperate drive that propels the user's scramble for cash, connection and the resultant 'pin cushion prick' that will 'fix this poor bad dreamer'. The elusive 'lady release' repeatedly beckons 'Come with me, I know the way' she says 'it's down, down, down the dark ladder'. The words 'concrete concentration camp, bashing in veins for peace' imply compassion for Joni's subject in this song. But ultimately the direction of the ensnared user's road is down into darkness. Joni's allusion to 'needles guns and grass' in the song 'Blue' followed by the lines 'everybody's saying that hell's the hippest way to go, well I don't think so, but I'm gonna take a look around it though' gives a definite impression that she had been a witness to heroin use by this point of her life and James Taylor's struggles with the drug are well known. But the gritty images in the song seem to be those of a street junkie's compulsive careening toward self-destruction and Taylor had already passed through a scenario of that type by the time he was connected with Joni. However, there has been a lot of speculation among fans and in the press that several of the songs on 'For the Roses' derive from Joni's relationship with James. Whatever the song's origins were, this was a marked departure from the euphoria and the eccentric but benign characters depicted in 'Ladies of the Canyon'. Joni's experience had broadened considerably and new, darker elements had crept into her writing. The songs 'Lesson in Survival', 'See You Sometime', 'Electricity' and 'Blonde in the Bleachers' are all depictions of problematic love relationships that are either near their end or past it. But 'spinning out on turns that gets you tough' is indicative of a survivor that has developed a thicker skin than the transparent membrane incapable of self-protection or concealment worn by the singer of the heart-wringing ballads on 'Blue'. 'Let the Wind Carry Me' provides a snap shot of a young, rebellious free spirit while 'Woman of Heart and Mind' gives a more in depth picture of that self-confident free spirit, matured and newly emerged from the aftermath of emotional upheaval with a hard won wisdom and a thicker, though not impenetrable shell. She is 'looking for affection and respect, a little passion' and although she is secure enough to say to her lover 'you want stimulation, nothing more that's what I think' there are still inroads to her heart. She tells him 'still you know I'll try to be there for you, when your spirits start to sink'. The opening lines of the song 'I am a woman of heart and mind with time on her hands, no child to raise' could be a concealed reference to the absence from Joni's life of her daughter who would have been seven years old when 'For the Roses' was released. The song 'Let the Wind Carry Me' also contains a reference to parenthood in the line 'sometimes I get that feeling and I want to settle down and raise a child up with somebody'. This may be a reflection on the descriptions in the song of how Joni herself was raised up by what seems to be a critical, disciplinarian mother and a possibly overindulgent father. Being an only child, it is easy to speculate that Joni was 'Daddy's little girl'. But the lyric may also be one more echo of the empty place that was left in Joni's life when her only child was relinquished to an unknown upbringing.

Joni, Mama Cass, and David Geffen


Like a good dramatist, Joni also provides her listeners with some lighter moments on 'For the Roses'. 'Barangrill' is a clever view of what seems to be a deceptively simple way of life found at a highway truck stop. 'You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio' is a whimsical and catchy tune in which the singer imagines herself as a country radio station 'sending you out this signal here' as 'you're driving into town with a dark cloud above you'. A single of 'You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio' was released in the fall of 1972 with the only studio recording of 'Urge for Going' that has been released on the b-side. It became Joni Mitchell's first top forty hit, peaking at number 25 on Billboard's Hot 100 in February of 1973.

'For the Roses' featured the sounds of Tom Scott playing woodwind & reed instruments. Tom Scott, a jazz instrumentalist, recorded Joni's song 'Woodstock' on his 1972 album 'Great Scott'. Scott's version of 'Woodstock' features him playing flute, recorder and soprano saxophone, embellishing the melody with blues inflected jazz riffs. He is accompanied by an ensemble of jazz musicians that includes drummer John Guerin, guitarist Larry Carlton and bassist Chuck Domanico. All of these performers would work with Joni Mitchell later in the course of her career. Tom Scott's contributions to 'For the Roses' were the first steps on a new musical path that would lead into increasingly expansive vistas in Joni Mitchell's music.

Session drummer Russ Kunkel, percussionist Bobbye Hall and bass player Wilton Felder also contributed their talents to 'For the Roses'. 'Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire' features veteran guitar legend James Burton playing electric guitar. Graham Nash played harmonica and Stephen Stills is credited as the 'Rock 'n Roll Band' on 'Blonde in the Bleachers'.

The album closes with a tribute to Beethoven titled 'Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Tune)'. Bobby Notkoff's arrangement for strings combined with Tom Scott's flute and horns provides a mini-orchestra to suggest the classical composer's symphonic works. Although the lyrics of this song are addressed to Beethoven there is a strong sense in the closing verse that Joni herself has firmly planted her feet and is ready to stand her artistic ground.

You've got to shake your fists at lightning now
You've got to roar like forest fire
You've got to spread your light like blazes
All across the sky
They're going to aim the hoses on you
Show 'em you won't expire


Not only is the strength of the survivor revealed but the defiance of the maverick is making itself known as well. Although they employ less of the high end of Joni's vocal range as the songs on 'Blue', 'For the Roses' contains some of her most unique melodies. The arrangements for this album have acquired more layers that give the complex chord structures and movements the fullest sounds of any of the recordings that had come before it. Joni has referred to the title song of 'For the Roses' as 'my first farewell to show business'. But the undeniable artistic growth and the apparent drive to continue to give it full expression make it difficult to believe that this enormous talent was going to disappear into obscurity. The lyrics 'I guess I seem ungrateful with my teeth sunk in the hand that brings me things I really can't give up just yet' suggest that, although Joni was fully aware of the downside of being regarded as a commodity in the recording industry, she was not yet ready to quit the game.

Judy Collins in the dressing room,
the photograph from which Joni
made the painting.


The packaging for the original LP vinyl release of 'For the Roses' is a gatefold style jacket with a photographic image that, when folded flat, is a panoramic composition in greens and blues of a wooded space somewhere high above a large body of water. The portion of this scenic view that appears on the front shows Joni Mitchell dressed in loose fitting green velvet slacks and top with tall leather boots. She is crouching by the edge of a sheer drop down to the water below, looking at the camera with the beginning of a smile on her otherwise solemn looking face. A tree to her right looks like one of the 'arbutus rustling' that 'sounded like applause' in the lyrics of the song 'For the Roses'. The inside of the gatefold has an extra sheet of cardboard. The lyrics of some of the songs are printed on the inside of the front cover. The extra cardboard page facing these lyrics is filled by a colored marker drawing showing a woman with her head thrown back, holding a bunch of roses up to her face, the nose inhaling the scent of the topmost blossoms. The name of this drawing does not appear in the credits of 'For the Roses' but has been identified elsewhere as 'Judy Collins in the Dressing Room'. The model for the drawing is a picture of Judy Collins attributed to photographer Laurie Pepper. Turning the insert over, there is a color photograph that spreads across the insert and the back of the album's jacket. The photo is another panoramic image of a large expanse of sea with the silhouette of a long headland in the far distance. In the foreground of the right half of this photo is an expanse of rock breaking the surface of the water with a nude Joni Mitchell standing on it, back to the camera, 'looking way out at the ocean'. The rest of the lyrics are printed over the left half of the photo. Prior to the final design and release, the album had been named 'Judgment of the Moon and Stars'. The plan was to put the photo of Joni standing on the rock on the cover with the day lit sky overlaid by a night-time, starlit one. But the prospect of marketing an LP with a photo of Joni Mitchell's nude backside on the cover proved to be more of a risk than David Geffen and Elliot Roberts were willing to take. Finally, to quote Joni from a 1979 Rolling Stone interview with Cameron Crow 'Elliot said, "Joan, how would you like to see $5.98 plastered across your ass?" {laughs} So it became the inside.'

As a result of being David Geffen's roommate, Joni began to rub shoulders with some of the Hollywood elite of the 1970s. She accompanied Geffen to a fundraiser for George McGovern's presidential campaign where she was introduced to Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty. But Joni was feeling the ill effects of her break-up with Jackson Browne and Geffen came up with an idea to take her mind off of it. The two set off with Robbie Robertson and his wife Dominique for a brief holiday at the Ritz Hotel in Paris. Geffen was moving rapidly into the position of a high profile record company executive. The stressful business environment he was working in brought an excessive amount of mental and emotional strain with it. The temporary respite proved beneficial to David as well and Joni was able to observe him relax and unwind.

Joni was trying to put together the components for her next album and was dissatisfied with what the studio session musicians were playing at the time. She felt these players could not grasp the unusual nature of the chords and rhythms that made up the melodies she had composed. Someone suggested that she what she needed was an ensemble of jazz musicians who would have greater flexibility in creating compatible arrangements for her material. Tom Scott, who had played a variety of woodwind instruments on 'For the Roses' had formed a musical bond with Max Bennett, a bass player who had been backing jazz musicians since the 1940s. Along with keyboardist Joe Sample, the two later brought drummer John Guerin and guitarist Larry Carlton into the mix and formed a combo that Bennett dubbed Tom Scott and The L.A. Express. Joni heard about Tom Scott and The L.A. Express and went to one of their gigs at a club called The Baked Potato to check them out. She knew that this was the combo she was looking for and along with Joni's acoustic guitar and piano playing, Tom Scott and The L.A. Express became the musical foundation for the album 'Court and Spark'

Jackson Browne and Joni


This album came at a time when the increasing popularity of singer/songwriters had caused a shift in the dynamic of how popular music was being created. Before artists like the Beatles and Bob Dylan came on the scene, the creation of hit songs involved a composer, a lyricist and a singer or group of singer/musicians. Now the record buying public had developed a taste for performers who combined all of these talents. The long playing record albums coming from these artists were not just vehicles for one or two hit songs with material that was mostly filler making up the rest. FM radio had moved away from the top 40 format and any song from a given LP could conceivably be heard on the airwaves. Listeners were exposed to the broad variety of musical styles that were finding their way into popular music. The artists making the music were letting their creativity run free and the people who were listening to the music were wide open to their experimentation. With 'Court and Spark', the course of Joni's artistic journey crossed paths with the trend of popular taste. 'Court and Spark' is still the most commercially successful album she has made. Despite Bob Dylan allegedly falling asleep when Joni played a tape of the album at Geffen's house prior to its release, 'Court and Spark' reached a U.S. chart position of number 2 and eventually went double platinum.

The first sound heard on the album 'Court and Spark' is a single piano chord suspended over a sustained two beats. It is followed by four more chords with the last chord sustained over 3 beats. The timing and tonal intervals of these chords give the impression that some kind of mystical event or dream is about to unfold. Then the piano resumes with four single descending notes and settles into a restless rumble. When Joni's vocal comes in, it stays with an earnest solemnity in the lower range of her voice and does not stray into its upper register throughout the song. As Larry Carlton's electric guitar and Max Bennet's bass add subtle embellishments to Joni's piano accompaniment, her lyrics describe how 'love came to my door with a sleeping roll and a madman's soul'. The song seems to be more descriptive of a fable or a dream than of an actual encounter with a real man although a strange story has surfaced about the song's origins. The 'madman' may be a fellow who says the lyrics of the song fit memories that have come to him in fragments after a long psychotic episode that resulted from a bad reaction to the hallucinogenic drug LSD. One of these recovered memories is of meeting Joni Mitchell and relating experiences to her that appear in the lyrics of 'Court and Spark'. Whether this story is true or not, the words can be interpreted metaphorically as Joni describing romantic love as a kind of redemptive madness born of a spiritual epiphany - 'something strange happened to him, glory train passed through him'. There is a renunciation and cleansing involved: '...he buried the coins he made in People's Park', 'all the guilty people he said they've all seen the stain on their daily bread on their Christian names, I cleared myself I sacrificed my blues'. This 'madman' is sure the singer 'had seen him dancing up a river in the dark, looking for a woman to court and spark'. He sees into the singer's psyche, sensing the mistrust and seeing 'how I worry sometimes.' His words are seductive, his eyes 'the color of the sand and the sea'. But ultimately the promise that 'you could complete me, I'd complete you' cannot make the subject of his aspiration 'let go of L.A. city of the fallen angels'. After Joni sings this final line of the song, the material reality of the city seems to spread out like a wide expanse of ocean in the accompaniment. The piano is joined with the sound of chimes, playing a repeated series of four descending triplet notes, each triplet underscored by a single note of a French horn and ending on a single chord held for a full sustained measure.

The nearly idyllic atmosphere described in 'Ladies of the Canyon' has metamorphosed into the 'city of the fallen angels'. The rest of the songs that make up 'Court and Spark' are set in a complex, imperfect, seductive, often confusing and sometimes disheartening reality. The second song of the record, 'Help Me' has a breezy, upbeat sound to it that almost masks the intricacy of its melodic structure. There are several up-tempo songs with musical arrangements supported by electric guitar, bass and drums that give the album a pop flavor. But, with the exception of the out and out rocker 'Raised on Robbery', a closer listening finds unique subtleties that set this record apart and make it sound fresh and original. Tom Scott's horns and reeds are more evident than on 'For the Roses' and there is even a string arrangement for the song 'Down To You' that sounds like a classical chamber music piece. The players in Tom Scott and The L.A. Express went into the studio with Joni and her guitar and built the arrangements as they went along. With Joni's melodies and playing as their guide, this group of accomplished, professional jazz musicians produced a collection of intricately constructed pieces that are beautifully fit together in a nearly perfect fusion of popular culture and fine art. Its aurally addictive musicality can be deceptive, however, and a casual listener may miss the anxiety and insecurity that lie beneath the surface. As a single, the pop sound of 'Help Me' pushed it to a chart position of number 7 in the summer of 1974. Lyrically the song is about the fear and insecurity felt at the onset of 'that crazy feeling' identified as 'falling in love again'. Joni revisits her conflicted feelings about commitment and sums up the sexual attitudes of the 'Me Decade' in the line 'We love our lovin' but not like we love our freedom.' I think the song's title is significant to the album as a whole. At the heart of 'Court and Spark' there is a rendering of an emotional crisis that topples over and breaks down, diffusing itself in the lethargic resignation of a full-blown depression.

Joni told Maclean's magazine in an interview from 1974 that she had been through analysis that year. But personally, I would not feel justified or comfortable to say that any one of her songs or lyrics is about Joni herself or any specific set of circumstances from her own life. Many other writers and fans of her music have played guessing games as to who or what this or that particular song is about. But I don't believe that Joni Mitchell's lyrics are diary entries. Like any good creative writer, she uses her own experiences and what she has witnessed as the raw material of her art. She weaves them together in whatever combinations she needs, adding or cutting out whatever will produce the shapes, forms and colors that will make the best composition. There are, of course, pieces of autobiography here and there and a few of her songs that she herself has said are about or at least written for specific people. 'Free Man in Paris' comes from her holiday in Paris and was written with David Geffen as its subject. The song is another up-tempo cut from 'Court and Spark' that was released as a single, peaking at 22 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. The tempo and drive of the music fit the description of Geffen's job as 'stoking the star-maker machinery' and dealing with 'dreamers and telephone screamers'. But the recording industry places stress on recording artists as well as its executives. Thematically, 'Free Man in Paris' adds another layer to the anxiety brought on by 'that crazy feeling' in 'Help Me'. 'People's Parties' follows 'Free Man in Paris' and portrays what could be a music industry or Hollywood party.

All the people at this party
They've got a lot of style
They've got stamps of many countries
They've got passport smiles


The singer, on the other hand, is 'living on nerves and feelings with a weak and a lazy mind and coming to people's parties fumbling deaf, dumb, and blind', wishing she 'had more sense of humor, keeping the sadness at bay, throwing the lightness on these things, laughing it all away'. The end of the song segues directly into the piano intro of 'The Same Situation' with no pause between the tracks. 'The Same Situation' is the final song on the first side of the original vinyl LP release of 'Court and Spark'. At this point the insecurity of a love relationship with a judgmental partner of whom the lyrics say...

Like the church
Like a cop
Like a mother
You want me to be truthful
Sometimes you turn it on me like a weapon though
And I need your approval


...leads to a feeling of powerless despair expressed in the lyrics

Still I sent up my prayer
Wondering who was there to hear
I said "Send me somebody
Who's strong and somewhat sincere"
With the millions of the lost and lonely ones
I called out to be released
Caught in my struggle for higher achievements
And my search for love
That don't seem to cease


The opening of 'Court and Spark's b-side begins with the bouncy tempo of 'Car on a Hill'. The intricate arrangement of horns, clarinet, flute, electric guitar, drums, Joni's vocal overdubs and Wayne Perkins' electric guitar accompany a lyric that describes the uncomfortably insecure position of waiting for a lover who 'said he'd be over three hours ago'. Some of the lyrics of this song seem to sum up the first side of the album. 'I watch for judgment anxiously now where in the city can that boy be.' 'It always seems so righteous at the start, when there's so much laughter, when there's so much spark, when there's so much sweetness in the dark.' There is a wordless choral interlude between the song's verses that has an eerie sound to it. Wayne Perkins' electric guitar wails as the vocal peaks and then falls away in a series of descending notes 'hey, hey, hey-yuh'. The emotional wave that has been building throughout the record breaks and the backwash leaves the lethargic residue of depression depicted in 'Down to You' and 'Just Like This Train'. 'Down to You' describes how loneliness can drive you to 'go down to the pickup station craving warmth and beauty'. But 'a few drinks later you're not so choosy' and the one-night stand only serves to point up how 'old bonds have broken down'. 'Love is gone, written on your spirit this sad song' and in the end 'it all comes down to you'. 'Just Like This Train' reveals an emotional vacuum in the words 'Lately I don't count on nothing I just let things slide' as the singer escapes into another sexual encounter in a train's rocking sleeping car. The conclusion here is that 'jealous lovin's bound to make me crazy, I can't find my goodness, I lost my heart'. The emotional and the spiritual are completely removed from the make-up of the character of the 'lady in lacy sleeves' who describes herself as 'a pretty good cook I'm sitting on my groceries' in the rocker 'Raised on Robbery'. 'Raised on Robbery' was the first of the three songs from 'Court and Spark' that were released as singles. The subject and the rowdiness of the song must have come as a surprise to fans who had been following Joni Mitchell's output up to this point in time. This song about a hooker trying to pick up an indifferent john in a bar may be a red herring or a bit of comic relief or I may be all wet in my interpretation of the thematic structure of 'Court and Spark'. But the last two songs seem to tie the whole thing up. 'Trouble Child' is 'up in a sterilized room' in some kind of treatment facility where 'they open and close you and they talk like they know you'. The patient's recognition of isolation comes as 'such a shock to know you really have no-one, only a river of changing faces looking for an ocean'. Stranded out in that empty ocean, the 'Trouble Child' has ended up 'breaking like the waves at Malibu'.

'Court and Spark's closer is a comic view of psychoanalysis and provides a contrast to the bleak picture of mental instability painted in 'Trouble Child'. It is also the first song to appear on one of Joni Mitchell's albums that she did not write. 'Twisted' is an exercise in vocalese. Singer Annie Ross wrote lyrics to a solo piece composed by saxophonist Wardell Gray. They tell about the bizarre antics of a manic personality who says 'My analyst told me that I was right out of my head'. Annie Ross is the Ross of the vocal trio Lambert, Hendricks and Ross that sang be-bop jazz songs and many of their own vocalese versions of instrumental jazz pieces in the late 50s and early 60s.

The jacket for 'Court and Spark' is buff colored with a relatively small water colored pen and ink drawing in the center. There are mountains in the background in the right half of the drawing. The left half shows a shape resembling the crest of an ocean wave that morphs into a human form at the top. The figure has no face and there are simplistic but recognizable renderings of arms and hands wrapping themselves around the form. This figure is turned away from the land and is bent slightly so that the blank face is pointed downward toward the encircling arms. Joni's signature is clearly visible in the lower right corner of the drawing. Inside the gatefold is a photo taken by Norman Seeff of Joni's face that looks like a silk screen print. Her eyes are closed, the mouth is open showing an expanse of teeth and her hair is swept back as if she is facing into a refreshing breeze. The album's song lyrics are printed on both sides of the photo.

Besides being the most popular of Joni Mitchell's albums, 'Court and Spark' was the most complex and mature recording she had made up to that point of her career. In addition to Joni and Tom Scott and The LA Express, there is a roster of some of the top-notch players of its day that contributed to the sound of 'Court and Spark'. Robbie Robertson's guitar combined with Tom Scott's smoking saxophone to create the rollicking groove of 'Raised on Robbery'. David Crosby and Graham Nash contributed background vocals on 'Free Man in Paris'. Besides Robbie Robertson and Larry Carlton, the credits for the album list Wayne Perkins, Dennis Budimer and Jose Feliciano playing electric guitar on various cuts. There is even a comic exchange between Cheech and Chong on 'Twisted'.

In her youth, Joni was an enthusiastic fan of Lambert Hendricks and Ross and has often cited them as a favorite and an influence in her own music. She has also been an admirer of Miles Davis since the days when she was a teenager. 'Twisted' was an indicator of the direction Joni's music was headed into. Her next album would take her deeper into the jazz idiom and would baffle many music critics as well as a large segment of Joni's fan base.

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