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The Millennium Project Interview Print-ready version

by Kathryn Walker
March 15, 2000

Joni: My thoughts are really the thoughts of others in that most of the indigenous people of the globe… umm, let me put it this way: I've been interested for a long time in origin stories -- and ending stories.

The end stories of most of the indigenous people of the globe are coming true, one by one. For instance, the Aborigines with their Dreamtime, say that the world will come to an end at that time when the youth no longer carry the bones of the old to the dream cave. That time has come. The Hopis say the end of the world will come, and the Hopis say that this is only one of many worlds, the last world ended in flood, which goes along with the Judeo-Christian concept, this one ends in fire, and they do say that there is another -- but the end of this one comes at the time that they can no longer collect their snakes for their late summer festivities to bring rain to this very difficult area that they have chosen to farm in. That happened last year. Mainly because of pollution, because some of the tribes sold out and developed the land in that area, and polluted water went into the ground, where the snakes… the traditional gathering fields for these snakes that they dance with to bring rain. All around the globe the end stories are coming true, this last little skirmish that we had in the Gulf, brought a lot of the images to life in Revelations, which is the Christian-Judaic end story. Not all of them have come true yet, Wormwood hasn't struck, umm, I mean you could interpret it as some of the fancy bombs that they were winging around, but since that was dreamed by a man of the world, the known world being in that particular region, he envisioned in the distance a time when there would be a war… men that looked like women would be in the front lines. He couldn't even say women would be in the front lines, it would just be too… in this dream he sees women in the front lines, so he says, oh, they must be men that look like women. Well, there were women in the front lines. There was a beast in his vision that sounded like thousands and thousands of galloping horses and looked like a locust. Planes, in profile, look exactly like that beast, and sound exactly like that beast. So many of the end stories… and Wormwood is, umm…comes… is a meteor that comes, and it's a toxic meteor, maybe it's soluble mercury, who knows what its metal, you know, what its content is. But it pollutes all of the water in the known world, and this was dreamed when the world was very small. As we speak, there are meteors heading towards the planet and they're trying to figure out, can they blow them up before they hit… So, much of the end stories are with us, and they were told and told for thousands and thousands of years. And now they're here, so… The Mayan calendar, and I don't know whether this, the exact date, was a perfect calendar, or is a perfect calendar, that ends in 2020-something -- mysteriously -- it was never completed. For many years I thought that's as far as we went as a species. Because of the, I just, who knows why you believe things, but when I heard that, it was at the time of Woodstock. The song "Woodstock" that I wrote basically was my own primitive instinct that we were rushing towards the end, that we were making, with our short-sightedness and our greed, this planet uninhabitable for our species, unwittingly, or uncaringly, or whatever it is. And at that time I felt that there was only one way out, and that's what the song "Woodstock" basically means. "We've got to get ourselves back to the garden." Basically we have to undo our electrical appetites and reverse -- well, it's an impossible dream, you know, we won't, therefore we will have to face some kind of music at the turn of the century or shortly thereafter. I mean we already are -- we are in trouble with our air and our water, and we are water-drinking, air-breathing organisms. We don't have a universal… we don't have an overlord… we need a benign dictator!… (laughs) … for the globe, you know, I say we should have the Dalai Lama in charge, you know, as our global overseer. He seems to be the only man, you know, in leadership position, with the wisdom to perhaps guide us through this, and I doubt that he can be bought, you know…

Interviewer: What is your personal feeling about these sorts of prophesies and things, I mean do you think it's a transition, or do you think that it's the end? Do you have, what's your sort of best and worst case scenario for this state that we're in, in our transition into this next millennium?

Joni: Because of our greed -- and nothing is showing any signs of changing our human nature -- because of business and money, and survival, because of the desperate complexity of many of the problems -- for instance, the Amazon -- and the deeply entrenched warring instincts, these relentless wars, be they tribal or… just seem to be in the DNA… I don't have very much hope for us to evolve to the kind of creature that can take stock of its peril. And those creatures who can take stock of their peril are powerless against those organisms which are simply shekel-oriented, you know, so, I don't really know how we're going to get out of this. Many must die, you know, I mean, the plagues are with us -- "many may die that some may live." So in a way, even these atrocities, on the overview, on a higher level, are necessary, or there will be survival of none of our species -- if you think our species is important -- I don't whether it is or not! You know, perhaps we were sent here to be the catalyst of the destruction of this… you know, maybe we are fulfilling our destiny, as appalling as it is, who knows? There is a master plan of some kind, because I've had three prophetic dreams. The time between the dreaming and the actualization in two of them was about a month. And another one was longer, but within a fifteen-month period. So, with that personal experience with prophecy through dream, umm, when the dream comes you can't, you don't know it's a prophecy until the actuality happens, and you think, "Ohhhh," you know… So I do believe in prophetic ability, you know, I know that something… that the subconscious, as Jung would say, does not know the concept past, present, future -- that's the concept that was invented by conscious mind, and so it flows freely through time on that level. And I don't really have any optimism for the future, for us getting out of this mess, but while there are still pockets of greenery and birds flitting by, you know, I just try to make, try to make the best of what is left. For a long time, in my twenties especially, I would look at nature in its voluptuousness and feel sad, you know, like, "It's going! It's disappearing!" -- you know. Now I can look at the smallest piece and enjoy it for what it is, so by becoming more present as I get older…umm, I don't really see any way out, because we're a stupid animal! (laughs) We're a stupid animal, you know?

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Added to Library on January 11, 2006. (7251)


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